Shoulders and shoulder blades

[joyous]

Question for anyone - can we have Lympedema in our shoulders????

I had someone mussage my left shoulder on Saturday night and they told me I had fluid in my shoulders and around the back of my neck, can anyone help me with this. Will be waiting to hear

Happy 4th to every one - and don't eat to many hot dogs I will be watching everything on TV tomorrow and not going any where



Joy

[patoco]

Hi Ya Joy

Yes, you can. Actually, anywhere there is an impairmenet with the lymphatic system, you can experience lymphedema.

I know a woman who had rotator cuff repair....and now has fluid collection in her should and neck areas...comes from a family of lymphers, though before the surgery she didn't have it.

Surprisngly, there are a number a cases of this.

One way to tell, is the infamous "pitting" poke. You should be able to leave a dent when you poke that area....plus, if there is fluid build up, the tissue (skin etc) is going to be firmer then surrounding areas.

Hot dogs????????

heck....we're having grilled New York strip steaks and crab legs

Big hug to Ya

Pat

[coyote]

Am I too late for the NY strips and crab legs? YUM!!!!

I have mild swelling in areas like my upper shoulders and how I know that is because there is a tightness and pain there. It's not enough for my LE therapist to be able to discern it, but lymph massage relieves the pain.

I use an exercise ball or a towel to massage my back and lower shoulders.

Here's a joke for you: Lymphedema of the butt! I had a friend once a few years back, as a joke, reach to give my butt a squeeze and afterwards, looked at me quizzically. You see, she expected my butt to be flabby, like hers, since I was much much much bigger than her, but my very large butt was exceptionally firm. For some odd reason, it sags more now after I do lymph massage around that area. I have pitting edema on the top part of my butt, so I definately know I have LE of the butt. My LE therapist hadn't run into that one before! I definately have full body LE!

[joyous]

Julie you and Pat should get together and write a book about your experience with LE - I bet I and most of the family would buy it.

How do you messager your butt? and tell me exactly how you do your neck and shoulder so I may do it also.

Joy

[coyote]

Joy,

The butt massage is a matter of putting your hands on you back or butt area and pulling them in around your waist toward your abdomen. Just keep scooping in toward your abdomen. My LE therapist taught me this technique.

You could also pull the fluid in toward your inguinals, I suppose, but the cisterna chyli (which is located in the deep lymphatics in your abdomen) is your main lymph "drain", so that is the best place to send it on back to the bloodstream and onwards toward the bladder. The abdomen is very important area to focus on clearing.

If you look at diagrams of the lymphatic system and look for the most concentrated areas of the lymphatics (the throat, armpits, abdomen, inguinals, inner thigh near the knee), you can see where you should direct the fluid to in any area of your body. For instance I have facial edema, I pull fluid to my ear lymph nodes from my eye areas and then down to my throat lymph nodes or directly down my face to the throat lymph nodes to clear my face.

If there is something that is blocking the pathway (scar tissue from a surgery, radiated areas), simply go around that area. There is no foolproof way. A lot of it is trial and error. For example, a woman at the LE support group I just went to had surgery and radiation on both sides of her lower face and throat areas. What she does to clear lymph fluid from her face is to pull it around the back of her head (instead of the front like I do) and down. Pay attention to your body and see if what you do makes an improvement or not. Just be sure not to direct fluid toward your genital or bladder areas, that just isn't very helpful to develop LE in those areas. You can massage fluid away from those areas, but never to them.

So, I massage my shoulders from my arms up toward my armpit and around the back of my shoulder toward my armpit or toward my throat. I clear my shoulder blades in front toward my throat.

First you want to clear the main lymph pathways (the throat, armpits, abdomen, inguinals, inner thigh near the knee), then massage your shoulder area and sometimes you need to go back and clear those lymph pathways again and again to get relief. Don't go too fast...and be patient. sometimes it takes doing it for awhile, like days, sometimes weeks, before you notice a difference, if you are very "full" of fluid. Got to clear out the logjam before the lymph can flow freely. Compression garments help to maintain the reduction of swelling that the MLD provides.

Hope this helps!

[silkie]

Hi Everyone

The left shoulder along the top under armpit and across shouler blade

on my lymph infected arm is so painful


cant hold the arm down at all or carry even holding paint brush causes it to ache

it could be lymph or inflamation not sure doing the mld and excercises

not helping as yet so I think the practioner is next on list

Doctor knows less than me

If it is lymph I am going to ask about kinesio for the pain it really has been effective with the carpol tunneling/ lymph in the arm

I will let you know how it goes at the moment only thing bringing relief id to hold my arm across my body like in a sling


Hugsssssssssssssssssss


Silksxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[donsuzbee]

Yes, as Pat says, LD can be anywhere the lymph glands are restricted, etc. I have LD in my upper right quadrant and in my right arm. Because of the LD in my upper trunk, I am starting to have a problem with my hip aching lots. I use a heating pad there. I am seeing my PT in a coupel of weeks. Tribute makes a good vest and sleeve for arm and upper body. Pat has many other avenues for things to help.
God bless!!!!!

[silkie]

Hi Donsuzbee

Surely heat is not recommended for lymph?

I have aching hips to I put that down to the way i walk favouring
one limb My left side is the problem both legs

this is a gradual thing the arm was not effected (that i am aware)

until fairly recently at the moment the pain in the shoulder and under arm is drvin me crazy i cant seem to find a way to sit in comfort

But i will see the therapist about it im hoping kinesio will help with the pain

hate popping pills wnough toxins in me with the lymph without adding man made chemicals to (thats a personal feeling)

I have tried to avoid more supports using kinesio on the recommendation of my therapist I know it is something many lymphers have no choice with maybe that will happen to me to eventually but if I can wait before it is absolutely nessessary I will

Hugsssssssssssss

Silksxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[donsuzbee]

Pat, No I absolutely do not use heat with LD. The pain in my hip is more of an arthritis due to the weight of the ld in my upper trunk and arm.
God bless!

[ann skinner]

hi girls...been so busy haven't had time to check in...lots of le problems lately...can you help? swellng real bad.legs hand and face..but do not know any of the tech of message, and the dro doesn't know too much either. where can i get some info on the messag(maybe it will hwlp the headaches also). Also does anyone have any ides for us le that helps hot flashes and still protect from the swelling and blood clot.
hope to be around more...and i will have the crab and steak too!!!!!!!!!!!

[joyous]

Ann, Welcome to the family - we are just one big family here - we all talk about every thing in our life here and give you help on any question also our leading of the family is Pat - he just the most wonderful person you ever want to meet and Of course there is Silkie - she a wonderful and dear lady from U K

glad you join us.

how is every one?



Joy

[patoco]

Hi Ya Joy

LOL...see you on line

Doing ok.....Monday morning and another work week.



Pat

[ann skinner]

thanx for the welcome.... any ideas on what is safe for me with the "warm and fuzzies"(hot flashes?)
also how do i get info on self message, no insurance as i have not been working since march....
have a great day
love to all
ann

[silkie]

Hi Ann

Check the info her for arm and leg lymph
there is massage there etc
Pat has got so much info it sometimes seems you cant find it there is so much

but i usually find while im looking for one thing Im finding info for other things

Self massage is so simple and really works
skin care is essential and nail care

check it out and anything u dont understand please get back to us
huggggggggggggg

Silks xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[silkie]

Hi everyone

Just updating you on the painful shoulders

Ok been waiting to see the new therapist BUT

in the mean time I finally got my GP practice to listen about the BP
meds i have been on for a few months.

Last week they took me off the diuretic and incresed the other pill form 2.5 mg to 10mg seems this should have been increased 2 weeks after i started them its 8 weeks now

The thing is the pain has gone , the feeling like i wanted to stay horizontal
because vertical i was like a drunk , the neck shoulder under arm all working good

I did what so many of us do when we get an continuing problem think its
the lymph

Well it looks (thankfully) like it was yet again wrong meds for my BP

i feel so much better in less than a week of changing meds
and im much more at ease not taking the diuretic

I am at the hospice tomorrow and am going to be shown the kinesio for the shoulder so i will let you all know about it

With the problem in my left arm and i still cannot carry a purse without it hurting within minutes i am hoping she can help as i have the stick in my right hand .

huggggggggggggggggggg

Silksxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[joyous]

Ann, Vitamin E helps with those dam hot flashes - but I seem to still be getting them still also.

have a good week

Hey Pat how are you doing??

[silkie]

Hi ladies

The hot flushes i hated them even steamed me glasses up

I tried all sorts nothing works well

fluid, stay off the coffee and chocolate

but even then not much change


They do end eventually and become less frequent


i did take these wonderful capsules and jellyies
oil of primrose, etc etc royal jelly but they to be honest
didtn do much either

Friends recommended them but I didnt see any big difference


save your money get some clothes and water


Hugssssssssssssss

Silks xxxxxxxxxxx

[Kim]

Hey ladies,

On this subject, anyone used progesterone cream?

I had been using it for a myriad of menopausal symtoms, and it seemed to help. I had not used it for about a year...just didn't get more thinking that maybe it wasn't doing THAT much and trying to cut some costs somewhere! However, 2 weeks ago I started using it again. In the last 2 weeks, I have also had a BIG jump in my condition with more swelling in my hips and back...all over really, and i just hurt all over. Previously, I had experienced some pain, but NOT like this at all. I'm miserable and having a hard time emotionally....feeling very overwhelmed.

So i'm wondering if this is just coincidental or if the progesterone cream is causing problems. I wouldn't have thought so, but it occurred to me last night that it might, so i'm not using it...since last night. Anyone know from experience or knowlege if progesterone cream is one of those things to avoid?

Silkie, it's wonderful that you're having such success! I know you have said before...somewhere...but what exercises are you doing that is making such a difference? With this big change in my condition, I am so stiff and hurt so badly that it is making exercising extremely difficult.

Have a great day, ladies, and thanks for your humor!!!!!!!!
Kim

[silkie]

Hiya kim

Exercises I started with simple stretches

I found the slightest movement repeated daily pretty quickly shows
an impovement . My legs each morning i do my foor excersise with the heel on the bead moving forward and back ward 5 times try and hold the foot in position 5 second the bring back i did that 5 times.
then circles with the ankles for 5
lifting the lieg off the bed keeping it straight do it slowly just a few inches or what ever you can do if you cant do yourself get somene to lift it for you hold position for 5 let down slowly no pain just as far as you can

bends from the knee that i thought was never going to happen but i kept trying a little a day now i can bend my knee into my tummy

I f you can do that then try bending knees into tumm and dropping them across to the lefy holding that position and then to the right 5 times

if you can lie on your side hand supporting head lift upper lleg keeping it straigh
then when you have more flexibility try lifting the leg holding it in position and bringing the lower leg off the matress to meet the upper leg
it onoly moves couple of iches if your lucky try hold for 5
its great for inside of thigh
see its all simple stretching i thing the breathing is so important

i can lift my leg straight up in the air ands hold it there
not bad for someone that couldnt lift there forr off the matresss 12 months last christmas,

i have more flexibility stretched out on the bed than standing vertical means movement restrictions
but i am working on it
every thing takes time and you have to do them every day even the slightest movement.
iIdo pelvic thrust on my chair when i have head set on listening to music
i even do upper body sat down and i so stretching with them arms
my left leg is the worse when i get into a car the left i have to lift still with the help of grapping support hose and lifting leg

there seems no pressure there the right on i can do So i have a friend that does weight training and knows what muscles do what etc so he is going to gove me a muscular movemnt that will help strengthen that area i will let you know how it goes

i try and do stretching limbs in all parts of my body

even your bottom clencj your cheeks together hold for five let go
its all tiny movements that repeated become easier and you can then improve you ecercise I was really like a rusty tired ol body

just the stretching has made life much less painful , less grating joints
its like i have had a good oiling you know not the slow painful barely moving body

It still can hurt it still frustrated me but my movement flexibility are improving

movement to me is vital if im moveing my muscles are and they help move my lymph
Thats why i dont want a micky mouse cart for convinience
they have them parked at malls and it would be so much easier to just sit in that and motor round
but then my legs would be doen with no movement
naaaaaaaaaaaa i rather wobble and trundle about than stop those legs
moving i think if push came to show i would prefer a walker frame
least my leg muscles are working moving the fluid

hugggggggggggggggggggggg

Silks xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

neck and shoulders do circular movements like shrugs on your shoulder
and stoping with the head movemeny front side back side holding it you understand
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Kim]

Thanks, Silkie

I'm so glad these exercises are helping you! We all work so hard at managing our LE, so it's nice when you can actually see and feel the results!

All of these exercises sound like what I do; just have to keep at it.

At the moment, i'm down in my back...very sore muscles. Went to see my chiropractor yesterday; he said my back was way out of alignment. He was able to adjust me pretty well, but i'm still hurting today. I used to use hot/cold treatments to help, but that is no longer an option with the LE. Wrapping my legs is what messes up my back. When wrapping last night, my back muscles actually went into spasm....ouch. Guess i'll have to stay more horizontal today, but then that just makes me stiffen up all over. If it's not one thing, it's another.

Such is life though. Just have to keep keeping on.

Keep at it, Silkie. You're an inspiration!
Kim

[silkie]

Hi Kim

We all have those days

I Had to do the doctors friday He is really pleased with me . my lymph

and another problem i was having turns out to be nothing

So i was pretty good . Walked round our tiny town, stopping sitting starting again never pbreathless just the solid concrete shoes effect
kicks in after a few yards so takes a while

Did brill. fell asleep soon as i got in for an hour thats normal

Wen to the market town just a mile away yesterday
going to have the day there take it easy

No way the pain in my shoulders/back kicked in so embaraasing and frustrating bang in the middle of the market stalls nearly doubled me up

some nice people got me in a cab i was home less than an hour after leavin it

Pain killers nothing seemed to help till my daughter came in around 6pm

she taped my arm shoulder with the taping

Within 15 mins i was fine

I dont know why i get great results with the kinesio in the arm now shoulders but i was flabbergasted the relief was wonderful

i'll be dancin today in my fashion lol

a day at a time Kim its the only way i can do this

and laughin i am terrible i laugh at the worst of moments
and im not a genteel ladylike laugher im a good old give it some wellie sort of girl

i think that helps plus im totally crazy and i love it

huggggggggggggggggggggggg

Silkie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Kim]

Laughter is one of the best things, and laughing at the wrong moments seems to be even better!!

So glad your daughter was able to help you; what lifesavers they can be! I miss both of mine terribly; they live to far away. Thank God for telephones!!

Back still giving me fits; taking it easy.

Keep on laughing, girl!

Kim